Possible Halloween: 35th Anniversary blu-ray forthcoming?

Discussion in 'General' started by Mikey Horror, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. bigdaddyhorse

    bigdaddyhorse Detroit Hi-on

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    Some good may come of the BD thread yet, as many are saying they will take audio capture with their phones and post them later for us to determine what is what. Of course that will open a new can of worms, but at least if all those are posted we can decide for ourselves. Maybe we won't know what is original and what is new, but we can at least decide what we like better.;)
     
  2. ronnie21

    ronnie21 Well-Known Member

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    Happy to report, Halloween looks perfect on this new release. I love how they put a pic of the original folded poster inside the book case. just great all around , this is the only Halloween we should all ever need....
     
  3. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    Using VHS for a visual frame of reference is indeed absurd. NTSC has taken a lot of justifiable flak for its inability to accurately reproduce the colors of a film print. But VHS is far more primitive and unreliable. And VHS tapes were mass-produced from lesser quality masters. So it's hard to imagine that VHS transfers were ever directly compared to the original film elements.

    Some of the sound controversy is completely manufactured. There's ZERO credible evidence to support the notion that the 1999 THX DVD doesn't contain the original mono mix. A lot of care was dedicated to the preparation of that disc. And that was the first introduction of the updated 5.1 remix--which is clearly plugged on the back cover.

    I just ripped both the 5.1 mix and the original mono from the thunderstorm chapter of that DVD. And you can tell without even listening that the mixes are vastly different. In addition to the replacement thunder sounds (most notable during the Loomis dialogue line referenced by Nailwraps), the relative volume of different effects compared to the music and dialogue varies tremendously. The stinger sound you hear when Michael grabs Marion's hair is MUCH louder on the original mono track. But most of the other effects, such as thunder sounds and the sound of the car starting, are comparatively much louder on the 5.1 track.

    I normalized both WAV files to make an apples to apples comparison easier. And I down-mixed the 5.1 track to 2 channels to match the format of the 2-channel mono track:

    [​IMG]

    Keep in mind those waveforms cover the exact same portion of the time-coded soundtrack. So they are a very reliable indicator of the vast sonic differences between the repurposed 5.1 track and the mono track.

    I don't have the original, botched Anchor Bay Halloween DVD. But I'd be shocked if you'd see that kind of disconnect between its audio track and the mono track on the THX edition. So with every source in doubt, does it make more sense to refer back to the mono track on the universally praised THX DVD or a dubbed German VHS tape?

    I know which way I'd lean.
     
  4. ronnie21

    ronnie21 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a sound system, I just get the audio from my sony tv, but I did notice on the first audio track, lauries crying at the end is muted but the music is louder... so there are different mixes with the audio..
     
  5. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    Good God. Trying to find actual content in the Blu-ray.com forum thread is a painful process. But someone actually linked a new interview with Cundey:

    http://www.horrorbid.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=279&t=24807

    Unfortunately the interviewer didn't ask him why this transfer looks vastly different from his prior approved transfer for the THX DVD. In fact, Cundey doesn't even seem to recall the fact that he assisted with that release--which is extremely odd since Bill Lustig confirmed he was there throughout the lengthy color timing process:

    http://horrordvds.com/vb3forum/showpost.php?p=660006&postcount=11

    Lustig also insisted that the THX DVD accurately reproduced the original color timing. Put that together the facts that Cundey is now 67 (14 years older) and that he doesn't seem to recall participating in the '99 THX release I can't help but feel that he just doesn't really remember what Halloween originally looked like anymore.

    Maybe he's just as confused as the rest of us. Ha.
     
  6. othervoice1

    othervoice1 Well-Known Member

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  7. Zollman

    Zollman New Member

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    I have a feeling that the trees in the 1999 disc were isolated digitally (or just mid-tones) and turned orange, now they didn't bother for "purism".
    So both are correct, however the 2013 is the "most" correct due to it's vintage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  8. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    That's exceedingly unlikely. Here's this for evidence. This is one of the screenshots from the Blu-ray.com review, first untouched and then with the yellow color channel adjusted (by me in about 2 minutes):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If I can approximate the look of the THX release so easily with a 10-year old version of Photoshop there's no doubt that the THX color timing could have been accomplished without isolating specific sections of the original image. Adjusting the yellow channel brings out a dramatic change without affecting true greens.
     
  9. Mutilated Prey

    Mutilated Prey Soul Stealer

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    I'm sorry, but I just think the 2007 version looks better. While the new one is supposed to be more "natural" it looks actually more dull to me. I don't think I can bring myself to a Blu-Ray double dip.
     
  10. Myron Breck

    Myron Breck BOO!!! Gotcha!

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    This is exactly what I'm going to go for. At this point, there's not much to be gained from everyone trying to guess what it looked like the day it was shot, what the true intention of the filmmakers might be (since Cundey doesn't even seem to know), or how it looked on screen in 1978. The new screen shots look amazing and I'm stoked as hell. The new extras just seal the deal.
     
  11. ronnie21

    ronnie21 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you cant lose getting the new blu ray.. it doesn't have all those annoying white specs the 1999 dvd thx had.... that's a major plus to me..
     
  12. Zollman

    Zollman New Member

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    Yes but that could not be accomplished photochemically 35 years ago.
    Best they could do is use a gel.
     
  13. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't suggesting this is how films were color timed in the 70s--only that it wasn't necessary to engage in targeted point and click operations when Cundey digitally color timed the 1999 THX DVD.

    That said, are you trying to definitively suggest that this look couldn't have been achieved on a photochemical timing machine? That's never been voiced as a criticism of the THX transfer before. And based on this article about photochemical color timing it appears you could do the same type of color channel shifting with equipment from that era:

    http://filmmakermagazine.com/archives/issues/fall1992/art_timer.php

    Digital grading has made this a much easier process. But there's no evidence to suggest that 1970s technology couldn't have produced a film print that looks like the THX DVD transfer.

    This all comes down to what, and who, you believe. The people attempting to debunk the accuracy of the THX color timing are relying on techniques that don't hold up to close scrutiny:

    1) Comparing the look of the THX DVD to the prior VHS, laserdisc, or DVD releases
    2) Relying on their personal memories of seeing this film in theaters 35 years ago

    None of the earlier releases were approved by Carpenter or Cundey. And even if the memories of moviegoers were perfect, many theaters had miscalibrated equipment. So, for me at least, the debate about the correct look of this film comes down to two choices:

    1) The THX release--color timed by Cundey at age 53, 21 years after the release of the film, and endorsed, with evidence, by Bill Lustig and Don May, Jr.

    2) The 35th Anniversary release--color timed by Cundey at age 67, 35 years after the release of the film, looking different from all prior releases, with no third-party defenders with Bill or Don's knowledge and credibility

    I'm not trying to definitively say that anyone is wrong. Apparently no reliable 35mm dye print is available for comparison. So this will always be debatable. But I think there's a lot more evidence to support the accuracy of the 1999 color timing.

    I know some of you don't care about the original color scheme, only what looks best to your eyes now. If you're in that camp please forgive my long-winded crusade to see this film get a definitive release.

    I'm still really looking forward to getting this disc.
     
  14. Mikey Horror

    Mikey Horror Active Member

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    Halloween has been my favorite film as far back as I can remember. I can still remember watching it as a kid and just being in awe of it every time it came on TV. I've watched it over a hundred times throughout my life and own every incarnation of the film on home video. This is by no means attempting to verify me being more of a fan than anyone else, nor is this an effort to state that my Halloween fan dick is bigger than anyone else's. I have never seen the film in theaters (I was only one when it came out), nor have I seen a genuine 35mm print. I am no expert on the technical aspects of the film, but I will say out of all of the versions and amount of times I have seen Halloween, this new 35th anniversary blu-ray is, in my opinion, the most amazing version of Halloween that I have seen to date.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  15. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    That's awesome Mikey. I can't wait to see the damn thing. My disc should finally arrive tomorrow or Saturday.
     
  16. Fistfuck

    Fistfuck Slowest to 2000 posts

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    Mah nigga, I think the same complaint was to be had with the recent release of The Fog. Screens of both look duller in comparison. This may just be a new kick Cundey is on, rewriting history with what his original visual intent was. But honestly, on screen, it doesn't make a difference. You can always boost the brightness and contrast on your TV. Resolution and seeing the patterns on sweaters is what matters to me these days.
     
  17. Mutilated Prey

    Mutilated Prey Soul Stealer

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    Right, yeah I get the detail is supposed to be much better - that's cool. That would probably be my only reason to upgrade. I'm just a sucker for colors though - probably all that acid I've eaten over the years ;)

    As much as I love this movie, I'm not the type that has to own every reincarnation though. We'll see which way the wind blows me over time, but I'm sure there will be a 40th anniversary too :)

    Thanks for the one-on-one!

    Bon Anniversaire!
     
  18. Dobby

    Dobby Well-Known Member

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    So am I to understand the new version is inferior to the old Blu?
     
  19. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    That certainly doesn't appear to be the case. The overall impressions from our crew are very positive. And by all accounts the night scenes are much closer to the look of the THX DVD. And every reviewer has universally praised the additional sharpness and resolution of the 35th Anniversary edition.

    If you're judging based on picture quality there's not much doubt that the new release is superior overall. It's just not the perfect grand slam that nitpickers like myself were hoping for.
     
  20. Mutilated Prey

    Mutilated Prey Soul Stealer

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    It's personal preference Dobby. I'm just looking at screen captures, and I know you can only judge so much from that. The colors seem to pop more on the old Blu and the new seems more "gray". However, sharpness and detail are apparently somewhat better on the newer version and it's the way the cinematographer intended it to be supposedly (sounds familiar - NOTLD '90). I can't really tell from the screen captures as far as detail goes, but if folks say it's so I believe them (not that I've really studied it). Then there's all this audio animosity which I don't personally care about, not to say it isn't important. As far as preference goes, I like the more "autumn" look in the older Blu rather than the Summertime lush greens in the new. Whatev's, there's no right or wrong answer.
     

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